The Talmagian Catechism
A shorter catechism, drawn from the sermons of Mr. Talmage.

by Robert G. Ingersoll
(1882)

From The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll (Dresden Edition, 1900–1902), Volume 5.
Source: https://thegreatagnostic.com/works/the-talmagian-catechism/
Public domain. CC0 / Public Domain Mark 1.0.

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_As Mr. Talmage delivered the series of sermons
referred to in these interviews, for the purpose
of furnishing arguments to the young, so that they
might not be misled by the sophistry of modern
infi-delity, I have thought it best to set forth,
for use in Sunday schools, the pith and marrow of
what he has been pleased to say, in the form of_

A Shorter Catechism

Question. Who made you?

Answer. Jehovah, the original Presbyterian.

Question. What else did he make?

Answer. He made the world and all things.

Question. Did he make the world out of nothing?

Answer. No.

Question. What did he make it out of?

Answer. Out of his "omnipotence." Many infidels
have pretended that if God made the universe, and if
there was nothing until he did make it, he had nothing
to make it out of. Of course this is perfectly absurd
when we remember that he always had his "omnipo-
tence and that is, undoubtedly, the material used.

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Question. Did he create his own "omnipotence"?

Answer. Certainly not, he was always omnipo-
tent.

Question. Then if he always had "omnipotence,"
he did not "create" the material of which the uni-
verse is made; he simply took a portion of his
"omnipotence" and changed it to "universe"?

Answer. Certainly, that is the way I under-
stand it.

Question. Is he still omnipotent, and has he as
much "omnipotence" now as he ever had?

Answer. Well, I suppose he has.

Question. How long did it take God to make the
universe?

Answer. Six "good-whiles."

Question. How long is a "good-while"?

Answer. That will depend upon the future dis-
coveries of geologists. "Good-whiles" are of such
a nature that they can be pulled out, or pushed up;
and it is utterly impossible for any infidel, or scien-
tific geologist, to make any period that a "good-while"
won't fit.

Question. What do you understand by "the
"morning and evening" of a "good-while"?

Answer. Of course the words "morning and

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"evening" are used figuratively, and mean simply
the beginning and the ending, of each "good-while."

Question. On what day did God make vegetation?

Answer. On the third day.

Question. Was that before the sun was made?

Answer. Yes; a "good-while" before.

Question. How did vegetation grow without sun-
light?

Answer. My own opinion is, that it was either
"nourished by the glare of volcanoes in the moon
or "it may have gotten sufficient light from rivers
"of molten granite;" or, "sufficient light might have
"been emitted by the crystallization of rocks." It
has been suggested that light might have been fur-
nished by fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and
worms, but this I regard as going too far.

Question. Do you think that light emitted by
rocks would be sufficient to produce trees?

Answer. Yes, with the assistance of the "Aurora
"Borealis, or even the Aurora Australis;" but with
both, most assuredly.

Question. If the light of which you speak was
sufficient, why was the sun made?

Answer. To keep time with.

Question. What did God make man of?

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Answer. He made man of dust and "omnipo-
"tence."

Question. Did he make a woman at the same
time that he made a man?

Answer. No; he thought at one time to avoid
the necessity of making a woman, and he caused all
the animals to pass before Adam, to see what he
would call them, and to see whether a fit companion
could be found for him. Among them all, not one
suited Adam, and Jehovah immediately saw that he
would have to make an help-meet on purpose.

Question. What was woman made of?

Answer. She was made out of "man's side, out of
his right side," and some more "omnipotence." Infi-
dels say that she was made out of a rib, or a bone, but
that is because they do not understand Hebrew.

Question. What was the object of making woman
out of man's side?

Answer. So that a young man would think more
of a neighbor's girl than of his own uncle or grand-
father.

Question. What did God do with Adam and Eve
after he got them done?

Answer. He put them into a garden to see what
they would do.

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Question. Do we know where the Garden of Eden
was, and have we ever found any place where a
"river parted and became into four heads"?

Answer. We are not certain where this garden
was, and the river that parted into four heads cannot
at present be found. Infidels have had a great deal
to say about these four rivers, but they will wish
they had even one, one of these days.

Question. What happened to Adam and Eve in
the garden?

Answer. They were tempted by a snake who was
an exceedingly good talker, and who probably came
in walking on the end of his tail. This supposition
is based upon the fact that, as a punishment, he was
condemned to crawl on his belly. Before that time,
of course, he walked upright.

Question. What happened then?

Answer. Our first parents gave way, ate of the
forbidden fruit, and in consequence, disease and
death entered the world. Had it not been for this,
there would have been no death and no disease.
Suicide would have been impossible, and a man
could have been blown into a thousand atoms by
dynamite, and the pieces would immediately have
come together again. Fire would have refused to

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burn and water to drown; there could have been no
hunger, no thirst; all things would have been equally
healthy.

Question. Do you mean to say that there would
have been no death in the world, either of animals,
insects, or persons?

Answer. Of course.

Question. Do you also think that all briers and
thorns sprang from the same source, and that had
the apple not been eaten, no bush in the world
would have had a thorn, and brambles and thistles
would have been unknown?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Would there have been no poisonous
plants, no poisonous reptiles?

Answer. No, sir; there would have been none;
there would have been no evil in the world if Adam
and Eve had not partaken of the forbidden fruit.

Question. Was the snake who tempted them to
eat, evil?

Answer. Certainly. '

Question. Was he in the world before the for-
bidden fruit was eaten?

Answer. Of course he was; he tempted them to
eat it

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Question. How, then, do you account for the fact
that, before the forbidden fruit was eaten, an evil
serpent was in the world?

Answer. Perhaps apples had been eaten in other
worlds.

Question. Is it not wonderful that such awful con-
sequences flowed from so small an act?

Answer. It is not for you to reason about it; you
should simply remember that God is omnipotent.
There is but one way to answer these things, and
that is to admit their truth. Nothing so puts the
Infinite out of temper as to see a human being
impudent enough to rely upon his reason. The
moment we rely upon our reason, we abandon God,
and try to take care of ourselves. Whoever relies
entirely upon God, has no need of reason, and
reason has no need of him.

Question. Were our first parents under the im-
mediate protection of an infinite God?

Answer. They were.

Question. Why did he not protect them? Why
did he not warn them of this snake? Why did he
not put them on their guard? Why did he not
make them so sharp, intellectually, that they could
not be deceived? Why did he not destroy that

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snake; or how did he come to make him; what did
he make him for?

Answer. You must remember that, although God
made Adam and Eve perfectly good, still he was very
anxious to test them. He also gave them the power
of choice, knowing at the same time exactly what they
would choose, and knowing that he had made them
so that they must choose in a certain way. A being
of infinite wisdom tries experiments. Knowing ex-
actly what will happen, he wishes to see if it will.

Question. What punishment did God inflict upon
Adam and Eve for the sin of having eaten the for-
bidden fruit?

Answer. He pronounced a curse upon the woman,
saying that in sorrow she should bring forth children,
and that her husband should rule over her; that she,
having tempted her husband, was made his slave;
and through her, all married women have been de-
prived of their natural liberty. On account of the
sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the ground, saying
that it should bring forth thorns and thistles, and
that man should eat his bread in sorrow, and that he
should eat the herb of the field.

Question. Did he turn them out of the garden
because of their sin?

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Answer. No. The reason God gave for turning
them out of the garden was: "Behold the man is
"become as one of us, to know good and evil; and
"now, lest he put forth his hand and take of the
"tree of life and eat and live forever, therefore, the
"Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden
"to till the ground from whence he was taken."

Question. If the man had eaten of the tree of life,
would he have lived forever?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Was he turned out to prevent his
eating?

Answer. He was.

Question. Then the Old Testament tells us how we
lost immortality, not that we are immortal, does it?

Answer. Yes; it tells us how we lost it.

Question. Was God afraid that Adam and Eve
might get back into the garden, and eat of the fruit
of the tree of life?

Answer. I suppose he was, as he placed "cher-
"ubim and a flaming sword which turned every
"way to guard the tree of life."

Question. Has any one ever seen any of these
cherubim?

Answer. Not that I know of.

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Question. Where is the flaming sword now?

Answer. Some angel has it in heaven.

Question. Do you understand that God made
coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve when
he turned them out of the garden?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Do you really believe that the infinite
God killed some animals, took their skins from them,
cut out and sewed up clothes for Adam and Eve?

Answer. The Bible says so; we know that he
had patterns for clothes, because he showed some
to Moses on Mount Sinai.

Question. About how long did God continue
to pay particular attention to his children in this
world?

Answer. For about fifteen hundred years; and
some of the people lived to be nearly a thousand
years of age.

Question. Did this God establish any schools or
institutions of learning? Did he establish any church?
Did he ordain any ministers, or did he have any re-
vivals?

Answer. No; he allowed the world to go on
pretty much in its own way. He did not even keep
his own boys at home. They came down and made

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love to the daughters of men, and finally the world
got exceedingly bad.

Question. What did God do then?

Answer. He made up his mind that he would drown
them. You see they were all totally depraved,—in
every joint and sinew of their bodies, in every drop
of their blood, and in every thought of their brains.

Question. Did he drown them all?

Answer. No, he saved eight, to start with again.

Question. Were these eight persons totally de-
praved?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Why did he not kill them, and start
over again with a perfect pair? Would it not have
been better to have had his flood at first, before he
made anybody, and drowned the snake?

Answer. "God's way are not our ways;" and
besides, you must remember that "a thousand years
"are as one day" with God.

Question. How did God destroy the people?

Answer. By water; it rained forty days and forty
nights, and "the fountains of the great deep were
"broken up."

Question. How deep was the water?

Answer. About five miles.

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Question. How much did it rain each day?

Answer. About eight hundred feet; though the
better opinion now is, that it was a local flood. In-
fidels have raised objections and pressed them to that
degree that most orthodox people admit that the
flood was rather local.

Question. If it was a local flood, why did they put
birds of the air into the ark? Certainly, birds could
have avoided a local flood?

Answer. If you take this away from us, what do
you propose to give us in its place? Some of the
best people of the world have believed this story.
Kind husbands, loving mothers, and earnest patriots
have believed it, and that is sufficient.

Question. At the time God made these people,
did he know that he would have to drown them all?

Answer. Of course he did.

Question. Did he know when he made them that
they would all be failures?

Answer. Of course.

Question. Why, then, did he make them?

Answer. He made them for his own glory, and
no man should disgrace his parents by denying it.

Question. Were the people after the flood just as
bad as they were before?

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Answer. About the same.

Question. Did they try to circumvent God?

Answer. They did.

Question. How?

Answer. They got together for the purpose of build-
ing a tower, the top of which should reach to heaven,
so that they could laugh at any future floods, and go
to heaven at any time they desired.

Question. Did God hear about this?

Answer. He did.

Question. What did he say?

Answer. He said: "Go to; let us go down," and
see what the people are doing; I am satisfied they
will succeed.

Question. How were the people prevented from
succeeding?

Answer. God confounded their language, so that
the mason on top could not cry "mort'!" to the
hod-carrier below; he could not think of the word
to use, to save his life, and the building stopped.

Question. If it had not been for the confusion of
tongues at Babel, do you really think that all the
people in the world would have spoken just the same
language, and would have pronounced every word
precisely the same?

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Answer. Of course.

Question. If it had not been, then, for the con-
fusion of languages, spelling books, grammars and
dictionaries would have been useless?

Answer. I suppose so.

Question. Do any two people in the whole world
speak the same language, now?

Answer. Of course they don't, and this is one of
the great evidences that God introduced confusion
into the languages. Every error in grammar, every
mistake in spelling, every blunder in pronunciation,
proves the truth of the Babel story.

Question. This being so, this miracle is the best
attested of all?

Answer. I suppose it is.

Question. Do you not think that a confusion of
tongues would bring men together instead of separa-
ting them? Would not a man unable to converse
with his fellow feel weak instead of strong; and
would not people whose language had been con-
founded cling together for mutual support?

Answer. According to nature, yes; according to
theology, no; and these questions must be answered
according to theology. And right here, it may be
well enough to state, that in theology the unnatural

377

is the probable, and the impossible is what has always
happened. If theology were simply natural, anybody
could be a theologian.

Question. Did God ever make any other special
efforts to convert the people, or to reform the world?

Answer. Yes, he destroyed the cities of Sodom
and Gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone.

Question. Do you suppose it was really brim-
stone?

Answer. Undoubtedly.

Question. Do you think this brimstone came from
the clouds?

Answer. Let me tell you that you have no right
to examine the Bible in the light of what people are
pleased to call "science." The natural has nothing
to do with the supernatural. Naturally there would
be no brimstone in the clouds, but supernaturally
there might be. God could make brimstone out of
his "omnipotence." We do not know really what
brimstone is, and nobody knows exactly how brim-
stone is made. As a matter of fact, all the brimstone
in the world might have fallen at that time.

Question. Do you think that Lot's wife was
changed into salt?

Answer. Of course she was. A miracle was per-

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formed. A few centuries ago, the statue of salt made
by changing Lot's wife into that article, was standing.
Christian travelers have seen it.

Question. Why do you think she was changed
into salt?

Answer. For the purpose of keeping the event
fresh in the minds of men.

Question. God having failed to keep people in-
nocent in a garden; having failed to govern them
outside of a garden; having failed to reform them by
water; having failed to produce any good result by a
confusion of tongues; having failed to reform them
with fire and brimstone, what did he then do?

Answer. He concluded that he had no time to
waste on them all, but that he would have to select
one tribe, and turn his entire attention to just a few
folks.

Question. Whom did he select?

Answer. A man by the name of Abram.

Question. What kind of man was Abram?

Answer. If you wish to know, read the twelfth
chapter of Genesis; and if you still have any doubts
as to his character, read the twentieth chapter of the
same book, and you will see that he was a man who
made merchandise of his wife's body. He had had

379

such good fortune in Egypt, that he tried the experi-
ment again on Abimelech.

Question. Did Abraham show any gratitude?

Answer. Yes; he offered to sacrifice his son, to
show his confidence in Jehovah.

Question. What became of Abraham and his
people?

Answer. God took such care of them, that in
about two hundred and fifteen years they were all
slaves in the land of Egypt.

Question. How long did they remain in slavery?

Answer. Two hundred and fifteen years.

Question. Were they the same people that God
had promised to take care of?

Answer. They were.

Question. Was God at that time, in favor of
slavery?

Answer. Not at that time. He was angry at the
Egyptians for enslaving the Jews, but he afterwards
authorized the Jews to enslave other people.

Question. What means did he take to liberate
the Jews?

Answer. He sent his agents to Pharaoh, and de-
manded their freedom; and upon Pharaoh s refusing,
he afflicted the people, who had nothing to do with

380

it, with various plagues,—killed children, and tor-
mented and tortured beasts.

Question. Was such conduct Godlike?

Answer. Certainly. If you have anything against
your neighbor, it is perfectly proper to torture his
horse, or torment his dog. Nothing can be nobler
than this. You see it is much better to injure his
animals than to injure him. To punish animals for
the sins of their owners must be just, or God would
not have done it. Pharaoh insisted on keeping the
people in slavery, and therefore God covered the
bodies of oxen and cows with boils. He also bruised
them to death with hailstones. From this we infer,
that "the loving kindness of God is over all his works."

Question. Do you consider such treatment of ani-
mals consistent with divine mercy?

Answer. Certainly. You know that under the
Mosaic dispensation, when a man did a wrong, he
could settle with God by killing an ox, or a sheep,
or some doves. If the man failed to kill them, of
course God would kill them. It was upon this prin-
ciple that he destroyed the animals of the Egyptians.
They had sinned, and he merely took his pay.

Question. How was it possible, under the old dis-
pensation, to please a being of infinite kindness?

381

Answer. All you had to do was to take an innocent
animal, bring it to the altar, cut its throat, and sprinkle
the altar with its blood. Certain parts of it were to be
given to the butcher as his share, and the rest was to
be burnt on the altar. When God saw an animal thus
butchered, and smelt the warm blood mingled with
the odor of burning flesh, he was pacified, and the
smile of forgiveness shed its light upon his face.
Of course, infidels laugh at these things; but what
can you expect of men who have not been "born
"again"? "The carnal mind is enmity with God."
Question. What else did God do in order to in-
duce Pharaoh to liberate the Jews?

Answer. He had his agents throw down a cane
in the presence of Pharaoh and thereupon Jehovah
changed this cane into a serpent.

Question. Did this convince Pharaoh?

Answer. No; he sent for his own magicians.
Question. What did they do?

Answer. They threw down some canes and they
also were changed into serpents.

Question. Did Jehovah change the canes of the
Egyptian magicians into snakes?

Answer. I suppose he did, as he is the only one
capable of performing such a miracle.

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Question. If the rod of Aaron was changed into
a serpent in order to convince Pharaoh that God had
sent Aaron and Moses, why did God change the
sticks of the Egyptian magicians into serpents—why
did he discredit his own agents, and render worth-
less their only credentials?

Answer. Well, we cannot explain the conduct of
Jehovah; we are perfectly satisfied that it was for
the best. Even in this age of the world God allows
infidels to overwhelm his chosen people with argu-
ments; he allows them to discover facts that his
ministers can not answer, and yet we are satisfied
that in the end God will give the victory to us. All
these things are tests of faith. It is upon this prin-
ciple that God allows geology to laugh at Genesis,
that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict
his holy word.

Question. What did God do with these people
after Pharaoh allowed them to go?

Answer. Finding that they were not fit to settle
a new country, owing to the fact that when hungry
they longed for food, and sometimes when their lips
were cracked with thirst insisted on having water,
God in his infinite mercy had them marched round
and round, back and forth, through a barren wilder-

383

ness, until all, with the exception of two persons,
died.

Question. Why did he do this?

Answer. Because he had promised these people
that he would take them "to a land flowing with
"milk and honey."

Question. Was God always patient and kind and
merciful toward his children while they were in the
wilderness?

Answer. Yes, he always was merciful and kind
and patient. Infidels have taken the ground that he
visited them with plagues and disease and famine;
that he had them bitten by serpents, and now and
then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands
of them, and in other ways saw to it that they were
kept as comfortable and happy as was consistent with
good government; but all these things were for their
good; and the fact is, infidels have no real sense of
justice.

Question. How did God happen to treat the Is-
raelites in this way, when he had promised Abraham
that he would take care of his progeny, and when he
had promised the same to the poor wretches while
they were slaves in Egypt?

Answer. Because God is unchangeable in his na-

384

ture, and wished to convince them that every being
should be perfectly faithful to his promise.

Question. Was God driven to madness by the
conduct of his chosen people?

Answer. Almost.

Question. Did he know exactly what they would
do when he chose them?

Answer. Exactly.

Question. Were the Jews guilty of idolatry?

Answer. They were. They worshiped other gods
—gods made of wood and stone.

Question. Is it not wonderful that they were not
convinced of the power of God, by the many mira-
cles wrought in Egypt and in the wilderness?

Answer. Yes, it is very wonderful; but the Jews,
who must have seen bread rained from heaven; who
saw water gush from the rocks and follow them up hill
and down; who noticed that their clothes did not
wear out, and did not even get shiny at the knees,
while the elbows defied the ravages of time, and
their shoes remained perfect for forty years; it is
wonderful that when they saw the ground open
and swallow their comrades; when they saw God
talking face to face with Moses as a man talks with
his friend; after they saw the cloud by day and the

385

pillar of fire by night,—it is absolutely astonishing
that they had more faith in a golden calf that they
made themselves, than in Jehovah.

Question. How is it that the Jews had no confi-
dence in these miracles?

Answer. Because they were there and saw them.

Question. Do you think that it is necessary for
us to believe all the miracles of the Old Testament
in order to be saved?

Answer. The Old Testament is the foundation of
the New. If the Old Testament is not inspired, then
the New is of no value. If the Old Testament is
inspired, all the miracles are true, and we cannot
believe that God would allow any errors, or false
statements, to creep into an inspired volume, and to
be perpetuated through all these years.

Question. Should we believe the miracles, whether
they are reasonable or not?

Answer. Certainly; if they were reasonable, they
would not be miracles. It is their unreasonableness
that appeals to our credulity and our faith. It is im-
possible to have theological faith in anything that
can be demonstrated. It is the office of faith to
believe, not only without evidence, but in spite of
evidence. It is impossible for the carnal mind to

386

believe that Samsons muscle depended upon the
length of his hair. "God has made the wisdom of
"this world foolishness." Neither can the uncon-
verted believe that Elijah stopped at a hotel kept by
ravens. Neither can they believe that a barrel would
in and of itself produce meal, or that an earthen pot
could create oil. But to a Christian, in order that a
widow might feed a preacher, the truth of these
stories is perfectly apparent.

Question. How should we regard the wonderful
stories of the Old Testament?

Answer. They should be looked upon as "types"
and "symbols." They all have a spiritual signifi-
cance. The reason I believe the story of Jonah is,
that Jonah is a type of Christ.

Question. Do you believe the story of Jonah to
be a true account of a literal fact?

Answer. Certainly. You must remember that
Jonah was not swallowed by a whale. God "pre-
"pared a great fish" for that occasion. Neither is it by
any means certain that Jonah was in the belly of
this whale. "He probably stayed in his mouth."
Even if he was in his stomach, it was very easy
for him to defy the ordinary action of gastric juice
by rapidly walking up and down..

387

Question. Do you think that Jonah was really in
the whale's stomach?

Answer. My own opinion is that he stayed in his
mouth. The only objection to this theory is, that it
is more reasonable than the other and requires less
faith. Nothing could be easier than for God to make
a fish large enough to furnish ample room for one
passenger in his mouth. I throw out this suggestion
simply that you may be able to answer the objections
of infidels who are always laughing at this story.

Question. Do you really believe that Elijah went
to heaven in a chariot of fire, drawn by horses of
fire?

Answer. Of course he did.

Question. What was this miracle performed for?

Answer. To convince the people of the power of
God.

Question. Who saw the miracle?

Answer. Nobody but Elisha.

Question. Was he convinced before that time?

Answer. Oh yes; he was one of God's prophets.

Question. Suppose that in these days two men
should leave a town together, and after a while one
of them should come back having on the clothes of
the other, and should account for the fact that he had

388

his friend's clothes by saying that while they were
going along the road together a chariot of fire came
down from heaven drawn by fiery steeds, and there-
upon his friend got into the carriage, threw him his
clothes, and departed,—would you believe it?

Answer. Of course things like that don't happen
in these days; God does not have to rely on wonders
now.

Question. Do you mean that he performs no
miracles at the present day?

Answer. We cannot say that he does not perform
miracles now, but we are not in position to call atten-
tion to any particular one. Of course he supervises
the affairs of nations and men and does whatever in
his judgment is necessary.

Question. Do you think that Samson's strength
depended on the length of his hair?

Answer. The Bible so states, and the Bible is true.
A physiologist might say that a man could not use
the muscle in his hair for lifting purposes, but these
same physiologists could not tell you how you move
a finger, nor how you lift a feather; still, actuated by
the pride of intellect, they insist that the length of a
man's hair could not determine his strength. God
says it did; the physiologist says that it did not; we

389

can not hesitate whom to believe. For the purpose
of avoiding eternal agony I am willing to believe
anything; I am willing to say that strength depends
upon the length of hair, or faith upon the length of
ears. I am perfectly willing to believe that a man
caught three hundred foxes, and put fire brands be-
tween their tails; that he slew thousands with a bone,
and that he made a bee hive out of a lion. I will
believe, if necessary, that when this man's hair was
short he hardly had strength enough to stand, and
that when it was long, he could carry away the gates
of a city, or overthrow a temple filled with people.
If the infidel is right, I will lose nothing by believing,
but if he is wrong, I shall gain an eternity of joy.
If God did not intend that we should believe these
stories, he never would have told them, and why
should a man put his soul in peril by trying to dis-
prove one of the statements of the Lord?

Question. Suppose it should turn out that some
of these miracles depend upon mistranslations of the
original Hebrew, should we still believe them?

Answer. The safe side is the best side. It is
far better to err on the side of belief, than on the
side of infidelity. God does not threaten anybody
with eternal punishment for believing too much.

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Danger lies on the side of investigation, on the
side of thought. The perfectly idiotic are absolutely
safe. As they diverge from that point,—as they rise
in the intellectual scale, as the brain develops, as the
faculties enlarge, the danger increases. I know that
some biblical students now take the ground that
Samson caught no foxes,—that he only took sheaves
of wheat that had been already cut and bound, set
them on fire, and threw them into the grain still
standing. If this is what he did, of course there is
nothing miraculous about it, and the value of the
story is lost. So, others contend that Elijah was not
fed by the ravens, but by the Arabs. They tell us
that the Hebrew word standing for "Arab" also
stands for "bird," and that the word really means
"migratory—going from place to place—homeless."
But I prefer the old version. It certainly will do no
harm to believe that ravens brought bread and flesh
to a prophet of God. Where they got their bread
and flesh is none of my business; how they knew
where the prophet was, and recognized him; or how
God talks to ravens, or how he gave them directions,
I have no right to inquire. I leave these questions
to the scientists, the blasphemers, and thinkers.
There are many people in the church anxious to

391

get the miracles out of the Bible, and thousands,
I have no doubt, would be greatly gratified to learn
that there is, in fact, nothing miraculous in Scripture;
but when you take away the miraculous, you take
away the supernatural; when you take away the
supernatural, you destroy the ministry; and when
you take away the ministry, hundreds of thousands
of men will be left without employment.

Question. Is it not wonderful that the Egyptians
were not converted by the miracles wrought in their
country?

Answer. Yes, they all would have been, if God
had not purposely hardened their hearts to prevent
it. Jehovah always took great delight in furnishing
the evidence, and then hardening the man's heart so
that he would not believe it. After all the miracles
that had been performed in Egypt,—the most won-
derful that were ever done in any country, the
Egyptians were as unbelieving as at first; they pur-
sued the Israelites, knowing that they were protected
by an infinite God, and failing to overwhelm them,
came back and worshiped their own false gods just as
firmly as before. All of which shows the unreason-
ableness of a Pagan, and the natural depravity of
human nature.

392

Question. How did it happen that the Canaanites
were never convinced that the Jews were assisted by
Jehovah?

Answer. They must have been an exceedingly
brave people to contend so many years with the
chosen people of God. Notwithstanding all their
cities were burned time and time again; notwith-
standing all the men, women and children were put
to the edge of the sword; notwithstanding the taking
of all their cattle and sheep, they went right on
fighting just as valiantly and desperately as ever.
Each one lost his life many times, and was just as
ready for the next conflict. My own opinion is, that
God kept them alive by raising them from the dead
after each battle, for the purpose of punishing the
Jews. God used his enemies as instruments for the
civilization of the Jewish people. He did not wish
to convert them, because they would give him much
more trouble as Jews than they did as Canaanites.
He had all the Jews he could conveniently take care
of. He found it much easier to kill a hundred
Canaanites than to civilize one Jew.

Question. How do you account for the fact that
the heathen were not surprised at the stopping of the
sun and moon?

393

Answer. They were so ignorant that they had
not the slightest conception of the real cause of
the phenomenon. Had they known the size of
the earth, and the relation it sustained to the other
heavenly bodies; had they known the magnitude of
the sun, and the motion of the moon, they would,
in all probability, have been as greatly astonished as
the Jews were; but being densely ignorant of as-
tronomy, it must have produced upon them not the
slightest impression. But we must remember that
the sun and moon were not stopped for the purpose
of converting these people, but to give Joshua more
time to kill them. As soon as we see clearly the
purpose of Jehovah, we instantly perceive how ad-
mirable were the means adopted.

Question. Do you not consider the treatment
of the Canaanites to have been cruel and ferocious?

Answer. To a totally depraved man, it does look
cruel; to a being without any good in him,—to one
who has inherited the rascality of many generations,
the murder of innocent women and little children
does seem horrible; to one who is "contaminated in
"all his parts," by original sin,—who was "conceived
"in sin, and brought forth in iniquity," the assassina-
tion of men, and the violation of captive maidens,

394

do not seem consistent with infinite goodness. But
when one has been "born again," when "the love
"of God has been shed abroad in his heart," when
he loves all mankind, when he "overcomes evil with
"good," when he "prays for those who despite-
"fully use him and persecute him,"—to such a man,
the extermination of the Canaanites, the violation
of women, the slaughter of babes, and the destruc-
tion of countless thousands, is the highest evidence
of the goodness, the mercy, and the long-suffering
of God. When a man has been "born again," all
the passages of the Old Testament that appear so
horrible and so unjust to one in his natural state,
become the dearest, the most consoling, and the
most beautiful of truths. The real Christian reads
the accounts of these ancient battles with the greatest
possible satisfaction. To one who really loves his
enemies, the groans of men, the shrieks of women,
and the cries of babes, make music sweeter than the
zephyr's breath.

Question. In your judgment, why did God destroy
the Canaanites?

Answer. To prevent their contaminating his
chosen people. He knew that if the Jews were
allowed to live with such neighbors, they would

395

finally become as bad as the Canaanites themselves.
He wished to civilize his chosen people, and it was
therefore necessary for him to destroy the heathen.

Question. Did God succeed in civilizing the Jews
after he had "removed" the Canaanites?

Answer. Well, not entirely. He had to allow the
heathen he had not destroyed to overrun the whole
land and make captives of the Jews. This was done
for the good of his chosen people.

Question. Did he then succeed in civilizing them?

Answer. Not quite.

Question. Did he ever quite succeed in civilizing
them?

Answer. Well, we must admit that the experi-
ment never was a conspicuous success. The Jews
were chosen by the Almighty 430 years before he
appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai. He was their
direct Governor. He attended personally to their
religion and politics, and gave up a great part of his
valuable time for about two thousand years, to the
management of their affairs; and yet, such was the
condition of the Jewish people, after they had had all
these advantages, that when there arose among them
a perfectly kind, just, generous and honest man, these
people, with whom God had been laboring for so

396

many centuries, deliberately put to death that good
and loving man.

Question. Do you think that God really endeav-
ored to civilize the Jews?

Answer. This is an exceedingly hard question.
If he had really tried to do it, of course he could
have done it. We must not think of limiting the
power of the infinite. But you must remember that
if he had succeeded in civilizing the Jews, if he had
educated them up to the plane of intellectual liberty,
and made them just and kind and merciful, like him-
self, they would not have crucified Christ, and you
can see at once the awful condition in which we
would all be to-day. No atonement could have
been made; and if no atonement had been made,
then, according to the Christian system, the whole
world would have been lost. We must admit that
there was no time in the history of the Jews from
Sinai to Jerusalem, that they would not have put a
man like Christ to death.

Question. So you think that, after all, it was not
God's intention that the Jews should become civilized?

Answer. We do not know. We can only say
that "God's ways are not our ways." It may be
that God took them in his special charge, for the

397

purpose of keeping them bad enough to make the
necessary sacrifice. That may have been the divine
plan. In any event, it is safer to believe the explana-
tion that is the most unreasonable.

Question. Do you think that Christ knew the
Jews would crucify him?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Do you think that when he chose
Judas he knew that he would betray him?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Did he know when Judas went to the
chief priest and made the bargain for the delivery
of Christ?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Why did he allow himself to be be-
trayed, if he knew the plot?

Answer. Infidelity is a very good doctrine to live
by, but you should read the last words of Paine and
Voltaire.

Question. If Christ knew that Judas would betray
him, why did he choose him?

Answer. Nothing can exceed the atrocities of the
French Revolution—when they carried a woman
through the streets and worshiped her as the goddess
of Reason.

398

Question. Would not the mission of Christ have
been a failure had no one betrayed him?

Answer. Thomas Paine was a drunkard, and re-
canted on his death-bed, and died a blaspheming
infidel besides.

Question. Is it not clear that an atonement was
necessary; and is it not equally clear that the atone-
ment could not have been made unless somebody
had betrayed Christ; and unless the Jews had been
wicked and orthodox enough to crucify him?

Answer. Of course the atonement had to be
made. It was a part of the "divine plan" that Christ
should be betrayed, and that the Jews should be
wicked enough to kill him. Otherwise, the world
would have been lost.

Question. Suppose Judas had understood the
divine plan, what ought he to have done? Should
he have betrayed Christ, or let somebody else do it;
or should he have allowed the world to perish, in-
cluding his own soul?

Answer. If you take the Bible away from the
world, "how would it be possible to have witnesses
"sworn in courts;" how would it be possible to ad-
minister justice?

Question. If Christ had not been betrayed and

399

crucified, is it true that his own mother would be in
perdition to-day?

Answer. Most assuredly. There was but one
way by which she could be saved, and that was by
the death of her son—through the blood of the
atonement. She was totally depraved through the
sin of Adam, and deserved eternal death. Even her
love for the infant Christ was, in the sight of God,—
that is to say, of her babe,—wickedness. It can not
be repeated too often that there is only one way to
be saved, and that is, to believe in the Lord Jesus
Christ.

Question. Could Christ have prevented the Jews
from crucifying him?

Answer. He could.

Question. If he could have saved his life and did
not, was he not guilty of suicide?

Answer. No one can understand these questions
who has not read the prophecies of Daniel, and has
not a clear conception of what is meant by "the full-
"ness of time."

Question. What became of all the Canaanites, the
Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and Romans and
Chinese? What became of the billions who died
before the promise was made to Abraham; of the

400

billions and billions who never heard of the Bible,
who never heard the name, even, of Jesus Christ—
never knew of "the scheme of salvation"? What
became of the millions and billions who lived in this
hemisphere, and of whose existence Jehovah himself
seemed perfectly ignorant?

Answer. They were undoubtedly lost. God
having made them, had a right to do with them as
he pleased. They are probably all in hell to-day, and
the fact that they are damned, only adds to the joy
of the redeemed. It is by contrast that we are able
to perceive the infinite kindness with which God has
treated us.

Question. Is it not possible that something can
be done for a human soul in another world as well as
in this?

Answer. No; this is the only world in which
God even attempts to reform anybody. In the
other world, nothing is done for the purpose of
making anybody better. Here in this world, where
man lives but a few days, is the only opportunity
for moral improvement. A minister can do a thou-
sand times more for a soul than its creator; and this
country is much better adapted to moral growth than
heaven itself. A person who lived on this earth a

401

few years, and died without having been converted,
has no hope in another world. The moment he arrives
at the judgment seat, nothing remains but to damn
him. Neither God, nor the Holy Ghost, nor Jesus
Christ, can have the least possible influence with
him there.

Question. When God created each human being,
did he know exactly what would be his eternal fate?

Answer. Most assuredly he did.

Question. Did he know that hundreds and millions
and billions would suffer eternal pain?

Answer. Certainly. But he gave them freedom
of choice between good and evil.

Question. Did he know exactly how they would
use that freedom?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Did he know that billions would use
it wrong?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Was it optional with him whether he
should make such people or not?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Had these people any option as to
whether they would be made or not?

Answer, No.

402

Question. Would it not have been far better to
leave them unconscious dust?

Answer. These questions show how foolish it is
to judge God according to a human standard. What
to us seems just and merciful, God may regard in an
exactly opposite light; and we may hereafter be
developed to such a degree that we will regard the
agonies of the damned as the highest possible evi-
dence of the goodness and mercy of God.

Question. How do you account for the fact that
God did not make himself known except to Abra-
ham and his descendants? Why did he fail to
reveal himself to the other nations—nations that,
compared with the Jews, were learned, cultivated
and powerful? Would you regard a revelation now
made to the Esquimaux as intended for us; and
would it be a revelation of which we would be
obliged to take notice?

Answer. Of course, God could have revealed him-
self, not only to all the great nations, but to each
individual. He could have had the Ten Command-
ments engraved on every heart and brain; or he
could have raised up prophets in every land; but
he chose, rather, to allow countless millions of his
children to wander in the darkness and blackness of

403

Nature; chose, rather, that they should redden their
hands in each other's blood; chose, rather, that they
should live without light, and die without hope;
chose, rather, that they should suffer, not only in this
world, but forever in the next. Of course we have
no right to find fault with the choice of God.

Question. Now you can tell a sinner to "believe
"on the Lord Jesus Christ;" what could a sinner have
been told in Egypt, three thousand years ago; and
in what language would you have addressed a Hindu
in the days of Buddha—the "divine scheme" at that
time being a secret in the divine breast?

Answer. It is not for us to think upon these
questions. The moment we examine the Christian
system, we begin to doubt. In a little while, we shall
be infidels, and shall lose the respect of those who
refuse to think. It is better to go with the majority.
These doctrines are too sacred to be touched. You
should be satisfied with the religion of your father
and your mother. "You want some book on the
"centre-table," in the parlor; it is extremely handy
to have a Family Record; and what book, other than
the Bible, could a mother give a son as he leaves the
old homestead?

Question. Is it not wonderful that all the writers

404

of the four gospels do not give an account of the
ascension of Jesus Christ?

Answer. This question has been answered long
ago, time and time again.

Question. Perhaps it has, but would it not be
well enough to answer it once more? Some may
not have seen the answer?

Answer. Show me the hospitals that infidels
have built; show me the asylums that infidels
have founded.

Question. I know you have given the usual an-
swer; but after all, is it not singular that a miracle
so wonderful as the bodily ascension of a man, should
not have been mentioned by all the writers of that
man's life? Is it not wonderful that some of them
said that he did ascend, and others that he agreed to
stay with his disciples always?

Answer. People unacquainted with the Hebrew,
can have no conception of these things. A story
in plain English, does not sound as it does in Hebrew.
Miracles seem altogether more credible, when told in
a dead language.

Question. What, in your judgment, became of
the dead who were raised by Christ? Is it not
singular that they were never mentioned afterward?

405

Would not a man who had been raised from the
dead naturally be an object of considerable interest,
especially to his friends and acquaintances? And
is it not also wonderful that Christ, after having
wrought so many miracles, cured so many lame and
halt and blind, fed so many thousands miraculously,
and after having entered Jerusalem in triumph as a
conqueror and king, had to be pointed out by one
of his own disciples who was bribed for the purpose?

Answer. Of course, all these things are exceed-
ingly wonderful, and if found in any other book,
would be absolutely incredible; but we have no
right to apply the same kind of reasoning to the
Bible that we apply to the Koran or to the sacred
books of the Hindus. For the ordinary affairs of
this world, God has given us reason; but in the
examination of religious questions, we should de-
pend upon credulity and faith.

Question. If Christ came to offer himself a sacri-
fice, for the purpose of making atonement for the
sins of such as might believe on him, why did he
not make this fact known to all of his disciples?

Answer. He did. This was, and is, the gospel.

Question. How is it that Matthew says nothing
about "salvation by faith," but simply says that God

406

will be merciful to the merciful, that he will forgive
the forgiving, and says not one word about the
necessity of believing anything?

Answer. But you will remember that Mark says,
in the last chapter of his gospel, that "whoso be-
"lieveth not shall be damned."

Question. Do you admit that Matthew says
nothing on the subject?

Answer. Yes, I suppose I must.

Question. Is not that passage in Mark generally
admitted to be an interpolation?

Answer. Some biblical scholars say that it is.

Question. Is that portion of the last chapter of
Mark found in the Syriac version of the Bible?

Answer. It is not.

Question. If it was necessary to believe on Jesus
Christ, in order to be saved, how is it that Matthew
failed to say so?

Answer. "There are more copies of the Bible
"printed to-day, than of any other book in the world,
"and it is printed in more languages than any other
"book."

Question. Do you consider it necessary to be
"regenerated"—to be "born again"—in order to be
saved?

407

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Did Matthew say anything on the sub-
ject of "regeneration"?

Answer. No.

Question. Did Mark?

Answer. No.

Question. Did Luke?

Answer. No.

Question. Is Saint John the only one who speaks
of the necessity of being "born again"?

Answer. He is.

Question. Do you think that Matthew, Mark and
Luke knew anything about the necessity of "regen-
"eration"?

Answer. Of course they did.

Question. Why did they fail to speak of it?

Answer. There is no civilization without the Bible.
The moment you throw away the sacred Scriptures,
you are all at sea—you are without an anchor and
without a compass.

Question. You will remember that, according to
Mark, Christ said to his disciples: "Go ye into all
"the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
Did he refer to the gospel set forth by Mark?

Answer. Of course he did.

408

Question. Well, in the gospel set forth by Mark,
there is not a word about "regeneration," and no
word about the necessity of believing anything—ex-
cept in an interpolated passage. Would it not seem
from this, that "regeneration" and a "belief in the
"Lord Jesus Christ," are no part of the gospel?

Answer. Nothing can exceed in horror the last
moments of the infidel; nothing can be more ter-
rible than the death of the doubter. When the
glories of this world fade from the vision; when am-
bition becomes an empty name; when wealth turns
to dust in the palsied hand of death, of what use is
philosophy then? Who cares then for the pride of
intellect? In that dread moment, man needs some-
thing to rely on, whether it is true or not.

Question. Would it not have been more con-
vincing if Christ, after his resurrection, had shown
himself to his enemies as well as to his friends?
Would it not have greatly strengthened the evidence
in the case, if he had visited Pilate; had presented
himself before Caiaphas, the high priest; if he had
again entered the temple, and again walked the
streets of Jerusalem?

Answer. If the evidence had been complete and
overwhelming, there would have been no praise-

409

worthiness in belief; even publicans and sinners
would have believed, if the evidence had been suffi-
cient. The amount of evidence required is the test
of the true Christian spirit.

Question. Would it not also have been better
had the ascension taken place in the presence of
unbelieving thousands; it seems such a pity to have
wasted such a demonstration upon those already
convinced?

Answer. These questions are the natural fruit of
the carnal mind, and can be accounted for only by
the doctrine of total depravity. Nothing has given
the church more trouble than just such questions.
Unholy curiosity, a disposition to pry into the divine
mysteries, a desire to know, to investigate, to explain
—in short, to understand, are all evidences of a re-
probate mind.

Question. How can we account for the fact that
Matthew alone speaks of the wise men of the East
coming with gifts to the infant Christ; that he alone
speaks of the little babes being killed by Herod? Is
it possible that the other writers never heard of these
things?

Answer. Nobody can get any good out of the
Bible by reading it in a critical spirit. The contra-

410

dictions and discrepancies are only apparent, and melt
away before the light of faith. That which in other
books would be absolute and palpable contradiction,
is, in the Bible, when spiritually discerned, a perfect
and beautiful harmony. My own opinion is, that
seeming contradictions are in the Bible for the pur-
pose of testing and strengthening the faith of Chris-
tians, and for the further purpose of ensnaring infidels,
"that they might believe a lie and be damned."
Question. Is it possible that a good God would
take pains to deceive his children?

Answer. The Bible is filled with instances of that
kind, and all orthodox ministers now know that
fossil animals—that is, representations of animals in
stone, were placed in the rocks on purpose to mis-
lead men like Darwin and Humboldt, Huxley and
Tyndall. It is also now known that God, for the
purpose of misleading the so-called men of science,
had hairy elephants preserved in ice, made stomachs
for them, and allowed twigs of trees to be found in
these stomachs, when, as a matter of fact, no such
elephants ever lived or ever died. These men who
are endeavoring to overturn the Scriptures with the
lever of science will find that they have been de-
ceived. Through all eternity they will regret their

411

philosophy. They will wish, in the next world, that
they had thrown away geology and physiology and
all other "ologies" except theology. The time is
coming when Jehovah will "mock at their fears and
"laugh at their calamity."

Question. If Joseph was not the father of Christ,
why was his genealogy given to show that Christ
was of the blood of David; why would not the
genealogy of any other Jew have done as well?

Answer. That objection was raised and answered
hundreds of years ago.

Question. If they wanted to show that Christ was of
the blood of David, why did they not give the gene-
alogy of his mother if Joseph was not his father?

Answer. That objection was answered hundreds
of years ago.

Question. How was it answered?

Answer. When Voltaire was dying, he sent for a
priest.

Question. How does it happen that the two gene-
alogies given do not agree?

Answer. Perhaps they were written by different
persons.

Question. Were both these persons inspired by
the same God?

412

Answer. Of course.

Question. Why were the miracles recorded in the
New Testament performed?

Answer. The miracles were the evidence relied
on to prove the supernatural origin and the divine
mission of Jesus Christ.

Question. Aside from the miracles, is there any
evidence to show the supernatural origin or character
of Jesus Christ?

Answer. Some have considered that his moral
precepts are sufficient, of themselves, to show that
he was divine.

Question. Had all of his moral precepts been
taught before he lived?

Answer. The same things had been said, but they
did not have the same meaning.

Question. Does the fact that Buddha taught the
same tend to show that he was of divine origin?

Answer. Certainly not. The rules of evidence
applicable to the Bible are not applicable to other
books. We examine other books in the light of
reason; the Bible is the only exception. So, we
should not judge of Christ as we do of any other
man.

Question. Do you think that Christ wrought

413

many of his miracles because he was good, charitable,
and filled with pity?

Answer. Certainly

Question. Has he as much power now as he had
when on earth?

Answer. Most assuredly.

Question. Is he as charitable and pitiful now, as
he was then?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Why does he not now cure the lame
and the halt and the blind?

Answer. It is well known that, when Julian the
Apostate was dying, catching some of his own blood
in his hand and throwing it into the air he exclaimed:
"Galileean, thou hast conquered!"

Question. Do you consider it our duty to love our
neighbor?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Is virtue the same in all worlds?

Answer. Most assuredly.

Question. Are we under obligation to render good
for evil, and to "pray for those who despitefully use us"?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Will Christians in heaven love their
neighbors?

414

Answer. Y es; if their neighbors are not in hell.

Question. Do good Christians pity sinners in this
world?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Why?

Answer. Because they regard them as being in
great danger of the eternal wrath of God.

Question. After these sinners have died, and
been sent to hell, will the Christians in heaven then
pity them?

Answer. No. Angels have no pity.

Question. If we are under obligation to love our
enemies, is not God under obligation to love his?
If we forgive our enemies, ought not God to forgive
his? If we forgive those who injure us, ought not
God to forgive those who have not injured him?

Answer. God made us, and he has therefore the
right to do with us as he pleases. Justice demands
that he should damn all of us, and the few that he
will save will be saved through mercy and without
the slightest respect to anything they may have done
themselves. Such is the justice of God, that those
in hell will have no right to complain, and those in
heaven will have no right to be there. Hell is justice,
and salvation is charity.

415

Question. Do you consider it possible for a law to
be jusdy satisfied by the punishment of an innocent
person?

Answer. Such is the scheme of the atonement.
As man is held responsible for the sin of Adam, so
he will be credited with the virtues of Christ; and
you can readily see that one is exactly as reasonable
as the other.

Question. Suppose a man honestly reads the New
Testament, and honestly concludes that it is not an
inspired book; suppose he honestly makes up his
mind that the miracles are not true; that the devil
never really carried Christ to the pinnacle of the
temple; that devils were really never cast out of a
man and allowed to take refuge in swine;—I say,
suppose that he is honestly convinced that these
things are not true, what ought he to say?

Answer. He ought to say nothing.

Question. Suppose that the same man should read
the Koran, and come to the conclusion that it is not
an inspired book; what ought he to say?

Answer. He ought to say that it is not inspired;
his fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion, and
it is his duty to do what he can do to destroy a per-
nicious superstition.

416

Question. Suppose then, that a reader of the Bible,
having become convinced that it is not inspired—
honestly convinced—says nothing—keeps his con-
clusion absolutely to himself, and suppose he dies in
that belief, can he be saved?

Answer. Certainly not.

Question. Has the honesty of his belief anything
to do with his future condition?

Answer. Nothing whatever.,

Question. Suppose that he tried to believe, that
he hated to disagree with his friends, and with his
parents, but that in spite of himself he was forced to
the conclusion that the Bible is not the inspired word
of God, would he then deserve eternal punishment?

Answer. Certainly he would.

Question. Can a man control his belief?

Answer. He cannot—except as to the Bible.

Question. Do you consider it just in God to
create a man who cannot believe the Bible, and then
damn him because he does not?

Answer. Such is my belief.

Question. Is it your candid opinion that a man
who does not believe the Bible should keep his
belief a secret from his fellow-men?

Answer. It is.

417

Question. How do I know that you believe the
Bible? You have told me that if you did not be-
lieve it, you would not tell me?

Answer. There is no way for you to ascertain,
except by taking my word for it.

Question. What will be the fate of a man who
does not believe it, and yet pretends to believe it?

Answer. He will be damned.

Question. Then hypocrisy will not save him?

Answer. No.

Question. And if he does not believe it, and ad-
mits that he does not believe it, then his honesty will
not save him?

Answer. No. Honesty on the wrong side is no
better than hypocrisy on the right side.

Question. Do we know who wrote the gospels?

Answer. Yes; we do.

Question. Are we absolutely sure who wrote
them?

Answer. Of course; we have the evidence as it
has come to us through the Catholic Church.

Question. Can we rely upon the Catholic Church
now?

Answer. No; assuredly no! But we have the
testimony of Polycarp and Irenaeus and Clement,

418

and others of the early fathers, together with that of
the Christian historian, Eusebius.

Question. What do we really know about Polycarp?

Answer. We know that he suffered martyrdom un-
der Marcus Aurelius, and that for quite a time the fire
refused to burn his body, the flames arching over him,
leaving him in a kind of fiery tent; and we also know
that from his body came a fragrance like frankincense,
and that the Pagans were so exasperated at seeing
the miracle, that one of them thrust a sword through
the body of Polycarp; that the blood flowed out and
extinguished the flames and that out of the wound
flew the soul of the martyr in the form of a dove.

Question. Is that all we know about Polycarp?

Answer. Yes, with the exception of a few more
like incidents.

Question. Do we know that Polycarp ever met
St. John?

Answer. Yes; Eusebius says so.

Question. Are we absolutely certain that he ever
lived?

Answer. Yes, or Eusebius could not have written
about him.

Question. Do we know anything of the character
of Eusebius?

419

Answer. Yes; we know that he was untruthful
only when he wished to do good. But God can use
even the dishonest. Other books have to be sub-
stantiated by truthful men, but such is the power of
God, that he can establish the inspiration of the Bible
by the most untruthful witnesses. If God's witnesses
were honest, anybody could believe, and what be-
comes of faith, one of the greatest virtues?

Question. Is the New Testament now the same as
it was in the days of the early fathers?

Answer. Certainly not. Many books now thrown
out, and not esteemed of divine origin, were esteemed
divine by Polycarp and Irenaeus and Clement and
many of the early churches. These books are now
called "apocryphal."

Question. Have you not the same witnesses in
favor of their authenticity, that you have in favor of
the gospels?

Answer. Precisely the same. Except that they
were thrown out.

Question. Why were they thrown out?

Answer. Because the Catholic Church did not es-
teem them inspired.

Question. Did the Catholics decide for us which
are the true gospels and which are the true epistles?

420

Answer. Yes. The Catholic Church was then the
only church, and consequently must have been the
true church.

Question. How did the Catholic Church select the
true books?

Answer. Councils were called, and votes were
taken, very much as we now pass resolutions in
political meetings.

Question. Was the Catholic Church infallible then?

Answer. It was then, but it is not now.

Question. If the Catholic Church at that time
had thrown out the book of Revelation, would it
now be our duty to believe that book to have been
inspired?

Answer. No, I suppose not.

Question. Is it not true that some of these books
were adopted by exceedingly small majorities?

Answer. It is.

Question. If the Epistle to the Hebrews and to
the Romans, and the book of Revelation had been
thrown out, could a man now be saved who honestly
believes the rest of the books?

Answer. This is doubtful.

Question. Were the men who picked out the in-
spired books inspired?

421

Answer. We cannot tell, but the probability is
that they were.

Question. Do we know that they picked out the
right ones?

Answer. Well, not exactly, but we believe that
they did.

Question. Are we certain that some of the books
that were thrown out were not inspired?

Answer. Well, the only way to tell is to read
them carefully.

Question. If upon reading these apocryphal books
a man concludes that they are not inspired, will he be
damned for that reason?

Answer. No. Certainly not.

Question. If he concludes that some of them are
inspired, and believes them, will he then be damned
for that belief?

Answer. Oh, no! Nobody is ever damned for
believing too much.

Question. Does the fact that the books now com-
prising the New Testament were picked out by the
Catholic Church prevent their being examined now
by an honest man, as they were examined at the time
they were picked out?

422

Answer. No; not if the man comes to the con-
clusion that they are inspired.

Question. Does the fact that the Catholic Church
picked them out and declared them to be inspired,
render it a crime to examine them precisely as you
would examine the books that the Catholic Church
threw out and declared were not inspired?

Answer. I think it does.

Question. At the time the council was held in which
it was determined which of the books of the New
Testament are inspired, a respectable minority voted
against some that were finally decided to be inspired.
If they were honest in the vote they gave, and died
without changing their opinions, are they now in hell?

Answer. Well, they ought to be.

Question. If those who voted to leave the book
of Revelation out of the canon, and the gospel of
Saint John out of the canon, believed honestly that
these were not inspired books, how should they have
voted?

Answer. Well, I suppose a man ought to vote as
he honestly believes—except in matters of religion.

Question. If the Catholic Church was not infal-
lible, is the question still open as to what books are,
and what are not, inspired?

423

Answer. I suppose the question is still open—
but it would be dangerous to decide it.

Question. If, then, I examine all the books again,
and come to the conclusion that some that were
thrown out were inspired, and some that were ac-
cepted were not inspired, ought I to say so?

Answer. Not if it is contrary to the faith of your
father, or calculated to interfere with your own po-
litical prospects.

Question. Is it as great a sin to admit into the
Bible books that are uninspired as to reject those
that are inspired?

Answer. Well, it is a crime to reject an inspired
book, no matter how unsatisfactory the evidence is
for its inspiration, but it is not a crime to receive an
uninspired book. God damns nobody for believing
too much. An excess of credulity is simply to err in
the direction of salvation.

Question. Suppose a man disbelieves in the inspira-
tion of the New Testament—believes it to be entirely
the work of uninspired men; and suppose he also be-
lieves—but not from any evidence obtained in the New
Testament—that Jesus Christ was the son of God, and
that he made atonement for his soul, can he then be
saved without a belief in the inspiration of the Bible?

424

Answer. This has not yet been decided by
our church, and I do not wish to venture an
opinion.

Question. Suppose a man denies the inspiration
of the Scriptures; suppose that he also denies the
divinity of Jesus Christ; and suppose, further, that
he acts precisely as Christ is said to have acted;
suppose he loves his enemies, prays for those who
despitefully use him, and does all the good he pos-
sibly can, is it your opinion that such a man will be
saved?

Answer. No, sir. There is "none other name
"given under heaven and among men," whereby a
sinner can be saved but the name of Christ.

Question. Then it is your opinion that God
would save a murderer who believed in Christ, and
would damn another man, exactly like Christ, who
failed to believe in him?

Answer. Yes; because we have the blessed
promise that, out of Christ, "our God is a consuming
"fire."

Question. Suppose a man read the Bible care-
fully and honestly, and was not quite convinced that
it was true, and that while examining the subject, he
died; what then?

425

Answer. I do not believe that God would allow
him to examine the matter in another world, or to
make up his mind in heaven. Of course, he would
eternally perish.

Question. Could Christ now furnish evidence
enough to convince every human being of the truth
of the Bible?

Answer. Of course he could, because he is in-
finite.

Question. Are any miracles performed now?

Answer. Oh, no!

Question. Have we any testimony, except human
testimony, to substantiate any miracle?

Answer. Only human testimony.

Question. Do all men give the same force to the
same evidence?

Answer. By no means.

Question. Have all honest men who have exam-
ined the Bible believed it to be inspired?

Answer. Of course they have. Infidels are not
honest.

Question. Could any additional evidence have
been furnished?

Answer. With perfect ease.

Question. Would God allow a soul to suffer

426

eternal agony rather than furnish evidence of the
truth of his Bible?

Answer. God has furnished plenty of evidence,
and altogether more than was really necessary. We
should read the Bible in a believing spirit.

Question. Are all parts of the inspired books
equally true?

Answer. Necessarily.

Question. According to Saint Matthew, God
promises to forgive all who will forgive others; not
one word is said about believing in Christ, or believ-
ing in the miracles, or in any Bible; did Matthew tell
the truth?

Answer. The Bible must be taken as a whole;
and if other conditions are added somewhere else,
then you must comply with those other conditions.
Matthew may not have stated all the conditions.

Question. I find in another part of the New
Testament, that a young man came to Christ and
asked him what was necessary for him to do in order
that he might inherit eternal life. Christ did not tell
him that he must believe the Bible, or that he must
believe in him, or that he must keep the Sabbath-
day; was Christ honest with that young man?

Answer. Well, I suppose he was.

427

Question. You will also recollect that Zaccheus
said to Christ, that where he had wronged any man
he had made restitution, and further, that half his
goods he had given to the poor; and you will re-
member that Christ said to Zaccheus: "This day
"hath salvation come to thy house." Why did not
Christ tell Zaccheus that he "must be born again;"
that he must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"?

Answer. Of course there are mysteries in our
holy religion that only those who have been "born
"again" can understand. You must remember that
"the carnal mind is enmity with God."

Question. Is it not strange that Christ, in his Ser-
mon on the Mount, did not speak of "regeneration,"
or of the "scheme of salvation"?

Answer. Well, it may be.

Question. Can a man be saved now by living
exactly in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount?

Answer. He can not.

Question. Would then a man, by following the
course of conduct prescribed by Christ in the Sermon
on the Mount, lose his soul?

Answer. He most certainly would, because there
is not one word in the Sermon on the Mount about
believing on the Lord Jesus Christ; not one word

428

about believing in the Bible; not one word about the
"atonement;" not one word about "regeneration."
So that, if the Presbyterian Church is right, it is abso-
lutely certain that a man might follow the teachings
of the Sermon on the Mount, and live in accordance
with its every word, and yet deserve and receive the
eternal condemnation of God. But we must remem-
ber that the Sermon on the Mount was preached be-
fore Christianity existed. Christ was talking to Jews.

Question. Did Christ write anything himself, in
the New Testament?

Answer. Not a word.

Question. Did he tell any of his disciples to write
any of his words?

Answer. There is no account of it, if he did.

Question. Do we know whether any of the dis-
ciples wrote anything?

Answer. Of course they did.

Question. How do you know?

Answer. Because the gospels bear their names.

Question. Are you satisfied that Christ was abso-
lutely God?

Answer. Of course he was. We believe that
Christ and God and the Holy Ghost are all the same,
that the three form one, and that each one is three.

429

Question. Was Christ the God of the universe at
the time of his birth?

Answer. He certainly was.

Question. Was he the infinite God, creator
and controller of the entire universe, before he was
born?

Answer. Of course he was. This is the mystery
of "God manifest in the flesh." The infidels have
pretended that he was like any other child, and was
in fact supported by Nature instead of being the
supporter of Nature. They have insisted that like
other children, he had to be cared for by his mother.
Of course he appeared to be cared for by his mother.
It was a part of the plan that in all respects he should
appear to be like other children.

Question. Did he know just as much before he
was born as after?

Answer. If he was God of course he did.

Question. How do you account for the fact that
Saint Luke tells us, in the last verse of the second
chapter of his gospel, that "Jesus increased in wis-
"dom and stature"?

Answer. That I presume is a figure of speech;
because, if he was God, he certainly could not have
increased in wisdom. The physical part of him could

430

increase in stature, but the intellectual part must have
been infinite all the time.

Question. Do you think that Luke was mistaken?

Answer. No; I believe what Luke said. If it
appears untrue, or impossible, then I know that it is
figurative or symbolical.

Question. Did I understand you to say that Christ
was actually God?

Answer. Of course he was.

Question. Then why did Luke say in the same
verse of the same chapter that "Jesus increased in
"favor with God"?

Answer. I dare you to go into a room by your-
self and read the fourteenth chapter of Saint John!

Question. Is it necessary to understand the Bible
in order to be saved?

Answer. Certainly not; it is only necessary that
you believe it.

Question. Is it necessary to believe all the
miracles?

Answer. It may not be necessary, but as it is im-
possible to tell which ones can safely be left out, you
had better believe them all.

Question. Then you regard belief as the safe
way?

431

Answer. Of course it is better to be fooled in this
world than to be damned in the next.

Question. Do you think that there are any cruel-
ties on God's part recorded in the Bible?

Answer. At first flush, many things done by God
himself, as well as by his prophets, appear to be
cruel; but if we examine them closely, we will find
them to be exactly the opposite.

Question. How do you explain the story of Elisha
and the children,—where the two she-bears destroyed
forty-two children on account of their impudence?

Answer. This miracle, in my judgment, estab-
lishes two things: 1. That children should be polite
to ministers, and 2. That God is kind to animals—
"giving them their meat in due season." These
bears have been great educators—they are the
foundation of the respect entertained by the young
for theologians. No child ever sees a minister now
without thinking of a bear.

Question. What do you think of the story of
Daniel—you no doubt remember it? Some men
told the king that Daniel was praying contrary to
law, and thereupon Daniel was cast into a den of
lions; but the lions could not touch him, their
mouths having been shut by angels. The next

432

morning, the king, finding that Daniel was still
intact, had him taken out; and then, for the purpose
of gratifying Daniels God, the king had all the men
who had made the complaint against Daniel, and
their wives and their little children, brought and cast
into the lions' den. According to the account, the
lions were so hungry that they caught these wives
and children as they dropped, and broke all their
bones in pieces before they had even touched the
ground. Is it not wonderful that God failed to pro-
tect these innocent wives and children?

Answer. These wives and children were heathen;
they were totally depraved. And besides, they were
used as witnesses. The fact that they were devoured
with such quickness shows that the lions were
hungry. Had it not been for this, infidels would
have accounted for the safety of Daniel by saying
that the lions had been fed.

Question. Do you believe that Shadrach, Meshach
and Abednego were cast "into a burning fiery furnace
"heated one seven times hotter than it was wont to
"be heated," and that they had on "their coats, their
"hosen and their hats," and that when they came
out "not a hair of their heads was singed, nor was
"the smell of fire upon their garments"?

433

Answer. The evidence of this miracle is exceed-
ingly satisfactory. It resulted in the conversion of
Nebuchadnezzar.

Question. How do you know he was converted?

Answer. Because immediately after the miracle
the king issued a decree that "every people, nation
"and language that spoke anything amiss against
"the God of Shadrach and Company, should be cut
"in pieces." This decree shows that he had become
a true disciple and worshiper of Jehovah.

Question. If God in those days preserved from
the fury of the fire men who were true to him and
would not deny his name, why is it that he has failed
to protect thousands of martyrs since that time?

Answer. This is one of the divine mysteries.
God has in many instances allowed his enemies to
kill his friends. I suppose this was allowed for the
good of his enemies, that the heroism of the mar-
tyrs might convert them.

Question. Do you believe all the miracles?

Answer. I believe them all, because I believe the
Bible to be inspired.

Question. What makes you think it is inspired?

Answer. I have never seen anybody who knew
it was not; besides, my father and mother believed it.

434

Question. Have you any other reasons for be-
lieving it to be inspired?

Answer. Yes; there are more copies of the Bible
printed than of any other book; and it is printed in
more languages. And besides, it would be impossible
to get along without it.

Question. Why could we not get along without it?

Answer. We would have nothing to swear wit-
nesses by; no book in which to keep the family
record; nothing for the centre-table, and nothing for
a mother to give her son. No nation can be civilized
without the Bible.

Question. Did God always know that a Bible was
necessary to civilize a country?

Answer. Certainly he did.

Question. Why did he not give a Bible to
the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and the
Romans?

Answer. It is astonishing what perfect fools in-
fidels are.

Question. Why do you call infidels "fools"?

Answer. Because I find in the fifth chapter of the
gospel according to Matthew the following: "Who-
"soever shall say 'Thou fool!' shall be in danger of
"hell fire."

435

Question. Have I the right to read the Bible?

Answer. Yes. You not only have the right, but
it is your duty.

Question. In reading the Bible the words make
certain impressions on my mind. These impressions
depend upon my brain,—upon my intelligence. Is
not this true?

Answer. Of course, when you read the Bible, im-
pressions are made upon your mind.

Question. Can I control these impressions?

Answer. I do not think you can, as long as you
remain in a sinful state.

Question. How am I to get out of this sinful state?

Answer. You must believe on the Lord Jesus
Christ, and you must read the Bible in a prayerful
spirit and with a believing heart.

Question. Suppose that doubts force themselves
upon my mind?

Answer. Then you will know that you are a sin-
ner, and that you are depraved.

Question. If I have the right to read the Bible,
have I the right to try to understand it?

Answer. Most assuredly.

Question. Do you admit that I have the right to
reason about it and to investigate it?

436

Answer. Yes; I admit that. Of course you can-
not help reasoning about what you read.

Question. Does the right to read a book include
the right to give your opinion as to the truth of what
the book contains?

Answer. Of course,—if the book is not inspired.
Infidels hate the Bible because it is inspired, and
Christians know that it is inspired because infidels
say that it is not.

Question. Have I the right to decide for myself
whether or not the book is inspired?

Answer. You have no right to deny the truth of
God's Holy Word.

Question. Is God the author of all books?

Answer. Certainly not.

Question. Have I the right to say that God did
not write the Koran?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Why?

Answer. Because the Koran was written by an
impostor.

Question. How do you know?

Answer. My reason tells me so.

Question. Have you the right to be guided by
your reason?

437

Answer. I must be.

Question. Have you the same right to follow your
reason after reading the Bible?

Answer. No. The Bible is the standard of reason.
The Bible is not to be judged or corrected by your
reason. Your reason is to be weighed and measured
by the Bible. The Bible is different from other
books and must not be read in the same critical spirit,
nor judged by the same standard.

Question. What did God give us reason for?

Answer. So that we might investigate other
religions, and examine other so-called sacred books.

Question. If a man honestly thinks that the Bible
is not inspired, what should he say?

Answer. He should admit that he is mistaken.

Question. When he thinks he is right?

Answer. Yes. The Bible is different from other
books. It is the master of reason. You read the
Bible, not to see if that is wrong, but to see
whether your reason is right. It is the only book
about which a man has no right to reason. He must
believe. The Bible is addressed, not to the reason,
but to the ears: "He that hath ears to hear, let
"him hear."

Question. Do you think we have the right to tell

438

what the Bible means—what ideas God intended to
convey, or has conveyed to us, through the medium
of the Bible?

Answer. Well, I suppose you have that right.
Yes, that must be your duty. You certainly ought
to tell others what God has said to you.

Question. Do all men get the same ideas from
the Bible?

Answer. No.

Question. How do you account for that?

Answer. Because all men are not alike; they
differ in intellect, in education, and in experience.

Question. Who has the right to decide as to the
real ideas that God intended to convey?

Answer. I am a Protestant, and believe in the
right of private judgment. Whoever does not is a
Catholic. Each man must be his own judge, but God
will hold him responsible.

Question. Does God believe in the right of private
judgment?

Answer. Of course he does.

Question. Is he willing that I should exercise my
judgment in deciding whether the Bible is inspired or
not?

Answer. No. He believes in the exercise of

439

private judgment only in the examination and rejec-
tion of other books than the Bible.

Question. Is he a Catholic?

Answer. I cannot answer blasphemy! Let me
tell you that God will "laugh at your calamity, and
"will mock when your fear cometh." You will be
accursed.

Question. Why do you curse infidels?

Answer. Because I am a Christian.

Question. Did not Christ say that we ought to
"bless those who curse us," and that we should
"love our enemies"?

Answer. Yes, but he cursed the Pharisees and
called them "hypocrites" and "vipers."

Question. How do you account for that?

Answer. It simply shows the difference between
theory and practice.

Question. What do you consider the best way to
answer infidels.

Answer. The old way is the best. You should
say that their arguments are ancient, and have been
answered over and over again. If this does not
satisfy your hearers, then you should attack the
character of the infidel—then that of his parents—
then that of his children.

440

Question. Suppose that the infidel is a good man,
how will you answer him then?

Answer. But an infidel cannot be a good man.
Even if he is, it is better that he should lose his
reputation, than that thousands should lose their
souls. We know that all infidels are vile and infa-
mous. We may not have the evidence, but we know
that it exists.

Question. How should infidels be treated? Should
Christians try to convert them?

Answer. Christians should have nothing to do
with infidels. It is not safe even to converse with
them. They are always talking about reason, and
facts, and experience. They are filled with sophistry
and should be avoided.

Question. Should Christians pray for the con-
version of infidels?

Answer. Yes; but such prayers should be made
in public and the name of the infidel should be given
and his vile and hideous heart portrayed so that the
young may be warned.

Question. Whom do you regard as infidels?

Answer. The scientists—the geologists, the as-
tronomers, the naturalists, the philosophers. No one
can overestimate the evil that has been wrought

441

by Laplace, Humboldt, Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel,
Renan, Emerson, Strauss, Bikhner, Tyndall, and
their wretched followers. These men pretended to
know more than Moses and the prophets. They
were "dogs baying at the moon." They were
"wolves" and "fools." They tried to "assassinate
"God," and worse than all, they actually laughed
at the clergy,

Question. Do you think they did, and are doing
great harm?

Answer. Certainly. Of what use are all the
sciences, if you lose your own soul? People in hell
will care nothing about education. The rich man
said nothing about science, he wanted water.
Neither will they care about books and theories
in heaven. If a man is perfectly happy, it makes
no difference how ignorant he is.

Question. But how can he answer these scientists?

Answer. Well, my advice is to let their argu-
ments alone. Of course, you will deny all their
facts; but the most effective way is to attack their
character.

Question. But suppose they are good men,—
what then?

Answer. The better they are, the worse they are.

442

We cannot admit that the infidel is really good. He
may appear to be good, and it is our duty to strip
the mask of appearance from the face of unbelief. If
a man is not a Christian, he is totally depraved, and
why should we hesitate to make a misstatement
about a man whom God is going to make miserable
forever?

Question. Are we not commanded to love our
enemies?

Answer. Yes, but not the enemies of God.

Question. Do you fear the final triumph of infi-
delity?

Answer. No. We have no fear. We believe
that the Bible can be revised often enough to agree
with anything that may really be necessary to the
preservation of the church. We can always rely
upon revision. Let me tell you that the Bible is the
most peculiar of books. At the time God inspired his
holy prophets to write it, he knew exactly what the
discoveries and demonstrations of the future would
be, and he wrote his Bible in such a way that the
words could always be interpreted in accordance with
the intelligence of each age, and so that the words
used are capable of several meanings, so that, no
matter what may hereafter be discovered, the Bible

443

will be found to agree with it,—for the reason that
the knowledge of Hebrew will grow in the exact
proportion that discoveries are made in other depart-
ments of knowledge. You will therefore see, that all
efforts of infidelity to destroy the Bible will simply
result in giving a better translation.

Question. What do you consider is the strongest
argument in favor of the inspiration of the Scrip-
tures?

Answer. The dying words of Christians.

Question. What do you consider the strongest
argument against the truth of infidelity?

Answer. The dying words of infidels. You know
how terrible were the death-bed scenes of Hume,
Voltaire, Paine and Hobbes, as described by hundreds
of persons who were not present; while all Christians
have died with the utmost serenity, and with their
last words have testified to the sustaining power of
faith in the goodness of God.

Question. What were the last words of Jesus
Christ?

Answer. "My God, my God, why hast thou for-
"saken me?"
